The Apostle Paul Teaches The Early Church To Eat Food Sacrificed To Idols
October 24, 2008 by A Watchman
Did you know that, According to Paul (Saul of Tarsus), it is ok if a Christian enters into an idol’s temple and eats food that has been sacrificed to idols?
1 Corinthians 8
1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God.
4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
Hmmm… So according to Paul it is alright to eat meat at an idol feast that has been sacrificed to an idol (just make sure that no christians see you).
But isn’t the idol feast part of the worship of the idol? Of course it is!
Paul is teaching that a strong christian can participate in idolatry with a clear conscience. What a load of rubbish. How is it that christians can read these letters of Paul’s and still think that he is led by the Spirit of YHVH?
What do those who are really led by the Spirit of YHVH have to say about eating food sacrificed to idols?
In the book of Acts 15:20, James the Brother of Our Lord tells Paul to teach “telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols”. James and the other elders at the church in Jerusalem even wrote a letter to the ‘gentile churches’ that paul had established stating “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality”.
Later, according to Acts 21:20-25, Paul still wasn’t listening because James tells Paul that the Christian Jews are angry about what Paul is teaching, and again James reinforces his stance on food sacrificed to idols by stating, “As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality”
YAHU’SHUA (Jesus) Himself condemns the practice of eating food sacrificed to idols. In the book of Revelation He is reported by John as saying:
Revelation 2:14
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality.
And:
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
Now, many will come in defence of Paul and say things like: “But it was a very pagan place that they were living in, all meat bought in the market in those days had been sacrificed to idols”.
I am sorry But that is not a defense. Paul was not talking about buying meat in the markets… For Paul says in verse 10: “eating in an idol’s temple”. The only time you eat in an idols temple is in celebration and worship of that idol. What on earth would a believer and follower of YHVH and disciple of His servant Yehoshua be doing participating in a celebratory feast in an idols temple??? How un-Christ-like!!!
When the Jewish believers were trying to decide whether Gentiles needed to obey the Mosaic Law, they concluded that avoiding food sacrificed to idols is more important than circumcision, tithing, fasting, and Surprisingly, “Do not murder” didn’t make their list either, but “abstain from food sacrificed to idols” did.
All the prohibitions in the Acts 15 letter, are related to the participation in the temple worship ceremonies of idols – eating sacrificial meat, drinking sacrificial blood, strangling your sacrifice to the idol and eating it with the blood still in it, sex with temple prostitutes. The command from James, “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality” is one command. not four. The command to not have anything to do with idol worship.
But notice that there is another sin that seems to go ‘hand in hand’ with the idolatrous practice of eating food sacrificed to idols in these verses…
The sin of ’sexual immorality’.
Sexual immorality was an important act of worship in many of the the temples of the false gods and goddesses. Even today, shrines of fertility and seduction gods and goddesses have people who render their services as male and female temple prostitutes.
Don’t have anything to do with idols!!!
Don’t follow the teachings of Paul.
Don’t worship idols by eating with the idolaters in the sacrificial meals.
If Pauls teachings are contrary to those of YAHU’SHUA (Jesus) or the prophets, most christians will take Pauls teachings in the place of The Christ’s. That makes Paul ‘ än-tē’-khrē-stos ‘ (antichrist). Most people think the word antichrist in the bible refers to ‘opposite of Christ’ but it also means ‘instead of’ or ‘in the place of’ Christ. Any teaching that people follow instead of Christ’s is an än-tē’-khrē-stos teaching, and any teacher they listen to in the place of Christ is än-tē’-khrē-stos
For most Christians Paul is än-tē’-khrē-stos. And they don’t even realize it.
What Paul says in 1 Corinthians 8:10 “For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple” is absolutely ludicrous.
The one with a “weak conscience” is the one Not eating in an idol’s temple???
The one eating in an idol’s temple has some sort of superior knowledge over his weak brother who thinks that it is wrong to partake in idol celebratory feasts???
Where does this so-called ’superior revelatory knowledge’ come from? The enemy of YHVH… That’s where! (Satan’s so-called deep secrets – Revelation 2:24)
Oh dear. I understand what you are trying to put across, but if you think that Jesus and Yehoshua are the same, then I find it hard to take your view seriously.
Why would God want anything written by an anti-christ to be put down in such a widely acknowledged book supposing to be Gods Word?
I am sure that Jehovah ensured everything included in the Bible for us to read today is there because it is all ‘beneficial for teaching, and setting things straight.’
God made the garden of Eden and deliberately placed the deadly tree in it, as well as the life tree. God always places good/bad, life/death right in peoples’ faces and then tells them to choose good.
Jesus warned that right after Jesus shared God’s truth, that a liar would come and oversow truth seeds with weeds and Jesus warned the whole world would be tested. Sadly most people heed the one who came after Jesus and sowed different words to what Jesus sowed. God warns that God sends frauds to test us (Deut 13:3, Ez 14:9) so between that warning and the verification of Jesus, we should expect to read very appealing deadly lies that God intends to be easily available to us
Paul did not say “If someone sees you eating at the Feast of an Idol”. Look around at symbols used for many modern day restaurants and bars. Most even serve unclean animals as meals.
YHVH instructs us as to what is good for the body. Follow His instructions (Torah)
Our job is to search diligently for the truth. Most people who are really seeking the kingdom of YHVH will find that there is more understanding in the writings about (Hebrew) Yahushua, than there is about the (Greek) Jesus.
More will be given to those who have.
Shalom!
Paul said idols aren’t real and Paul did discuss ‘weak conscience’ believers seeing supposed ‘knowledgable’ believers’ eating at idol’s temple and advised such ‘knowledgable’ believers to not be seen by those of ‘weak conscience’
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
It is abomination to justify the wicked. Eating idol food is sin and tempting people to sin is also wicked and is the work of false prophets
Proverbs 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
Many people justify Paul and yet he did exactly what God warned against … he promoted an ‘unknown god’ and quoted Hymn to Zeus to describe this Unknown god … and most people errantly assume that Paul is discussing the God of Israel but he isn’t!
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Yes, Paul is promoting the unknown god of the people around about him … we should not justify him or try to hide the fact
Deu 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deu 13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
Deu 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
Deu 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Paul tells them to NOT eat in an idols temple. It is true that Paul is interpreted as saying that it is OK to eat meat offered to idols under any and all circumstances “because we who have knowledge know that an idol is nothing!” But in reality, Paul is only teaching that you shouldn’t be overly worried about whether your meat was offered to idols or not. Paul is saying that if you buy meat in the market or someone gives you meat or you go eat at someone’s house, don’t ask them if it was offered to idols or not, just eat it. But, he says, if they tell you that it was offered to idols, DON’T EAT IT. That seems clear that he is only saying it is OK to eat if nobody told you and you didn’t know that it was offered to idols. Even here, though, that does not discount Revelation 2:14 from referring to Paul, since John may very well be referring to Paul as traditionally interpreted rather than Paul as Paul actually thought he was teaching. Paul didn’t think his doctrine of “justification by faith alone” was laying a stumbling block in front of Israel to make them “commit fornication,” and yet it was. Paul didn’t think that his doctrine on meats offered to idols would “cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols,” and yet it apparently did. So its not so much Paul’s intention as his result that is called on the carpet. I do see the parallel between Paul and Balaam, both obstinate against God in the beginning, both seeking to persecute God’s people, then converted on the road (Balaam by a donkey and an angel, and Paul by a light and a voice). But finally, they found a way back to their old path, Balaam being forbidden by God from directly cursing the children of Israel, taught Balak how to destroy the people by teaching them to eat meats offered to idols and comitt fornication. Paul in much the same way layed havock to the church, no longer by dragging Christians out of their homes and torturing them, but now by teaching them “justification by faith alone” so that they would disregard the moral teachings of Christ in the Sermon on the Mount and thus be destroyed, for Christ says in the Sermon on the Mount that the fool who hears his (Christ’s) sayings and doesn’t do them will be destroyed (Matt 7:26-27). So, yes, Revelation 2:14 can very well refer to Paul even so.
I’m sure Mr. “A Watchman” you will enjoy my blog, which is all about questioning Paul and returning to Jesus. It focuses very much on his bashing the real apostles in Galatians 2:6-9 when he himself has nothing to base his supposed apostleship on by a light (for he did NOT see Jesus but only a light, read his conversion stories as many times as you might that still is the case) and a voice (that he didn’t even recognize as Jesus’ voice and had to ask “Who are you Lord?”).
But you say “The one with a “weak conscience” is the one Not eating in an idol’s temple???” Yes, that does show that Paul is undoubtedly the one being referred to as Balaam in Revelation 2:14. How preposterous! How the reverse of the truth has Paul got it here!
(1 Cor 8:10) “For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;”
Isn’t your conscience totally messed up if you are eating in an idols’ temple? Let’s forget the supposed “weaker brother” for now and focus on you–why are you in an idol’s temple?????
“Isn’t your conscience totally messed up if you are eating in an idols’ temple? Let’s forget the supposed “weaker brother” for now and focus on you–why are you in an idol’s temple?????”
EXACTLY!
There are many bible books which allude to Paul, and not only Rev. James takes him on without mentioning names, as do John’s epistles which clarify anti-Christ teachers were known to and even went out from the real apostles. Jesus warned of frauds claiming to come in his name and OT prophesied of a corrupt shepherd after the good shepherd too. OT Saul and NT Saul also equate in many things … both Benjaminites with same name and habits and both terrorized God’s priestly people and arrogantly overstepped the mark in assuming to place themselves in positions of God’s appointed priestly people and both suffered evil spirit/satanic mesenger (angel) etc and both had large followings that sought to wipe out Davidic leadership etc. Saul means ‘desired/asked for’ and God gives people what they ask for coz Israelites wanted a king ‘like the nations’ (rather than a Godly king unlike the nations) so God granted their desire. NT people desired a trouble-maker instead of Jesus and God gave them what they asked for. God allowed the snake in Eden and Saul’s presence is not a mistake either. God warns that he allows us to be tested. Rev warned the snake would try to wipe out commandment-keepers and those who embrace the testimony of Jesus.
If you check non-biblical sources, you’ll find that the god who Paul promoted was actually Zeus. Paul quoted Hymn to Zeus and most people errantly assume he’s speaking of the God of Israel, but he isn’t. Most of his quotes are from pagan sources eg ‘kick against the pricks’, ‘in him we live and move and have our being’ (refers to Zeus), ‘Cretians are always liars’ etc etc. Paul promoted the ‘unknown god’ and this turned out to be zeus! I’m sorry I was a Pauline Christian and have repented, but I’m sorry for Paul because it was bad enough for me, but I wouldn’t want to be him.
Jesus commanded against ripping up the weeds and David commanded against harming Saul … best we just tear a bit off his garment occasionally and adhere closely to God’s Davidic annointed and allow God to deal with things in due time. The apostles did Paul damage without ever naming him. Persist with truth so people recognise the difference. Better to spend time promoting Jesus than focus on harming Paul. Paul discredits himself for any who desire and are willing to seek and recognise total truth. Discovery is initially a painful shock. The Kingdom is buried in a field under heaps of dirt and it takes effort to work through the dirt to dig up the treasure.
God bless
Hi Glenda wanted to say very good post.
Thanks for the link here.
[...] used to harmonize all the passages using some glib arguments, but after reading this article and this one, I’m wondering whether I should [...]
well im going to add that whatevr we eat goes into the body and out again, and jesus himself said, nothing is unclean that enters into the body, but it is what that comes out that is unclean out of the lips from the heart that matters. jesus told us its ok to eat anything, as long as you have the mind to eat it, then the strong will eat it in his faith, but if it offends your brother then dont eat it. paul was right by saying eat, because its not what we eat, or cellebrate or dont cellebrate, or wear, ordont wear that condems us, but the subconscious mind.if you go in with faith, then faith will get you back out again. god has no problems with us eating anything at all. same as some people think we have to keep all the feasts, and fastings, we dont, only if we want to, whatever you do, do for god, and in faith and you are right. its all about what you believe and the attetude. if you feel guilt, then you wont enjoy it, but if you dont feel guilt then eat whatever you lke,aslong as its not your neighbour ! haha
even jesus committed what some would call sin. he walked on the sabath, they ate from the holy place, he was long haired and bearded, he told us if our sheep was lost would we not go out on a holy day to save it? yes it can be done, for the good for goodness sake is really what matters. the day was made for man, the animals were made for man, not the other way around. we are the most important thing to god, not animals, or wether we eat this or that, or cellebrate this or that, its all just a matter of choice.one chooses to and another doesnt, thats each and every ones of us’s right. but if you do something do it out of love. for the good of yourself, god or others. we all have the rules in our heart, and the mind filters what we feel is right or wrong. jesus turned the tables up at the church were the money exchangers were selling things, telling them how dare you in my fathers holy house, yet half the churches have fairs and fates on in the holy grounds right up to these days? you cant hit people over the head with rules and then break them when you feel like it. you either live by the whole law, or grace which coveres everything we do wrong.it seems to be the people who are stuck in the old testament that dont want nothing to do with the pauline teachings, or grace, which came from christ, not paul.
Jesus did not sin. Jesus obeyed God’s Laws but did not obey man-made religious traditions that disagreed with God’s Laws.
God clarified what things are classed as food/meat. Unclean things are not food/meat or it would be ok for you to eat slugs and earwigs and dog poo.
Jesus adhered to God’s Laws rather than opposing man-made religious traditions and this issue about food is again about man-made religious traditions.
Jewish tradition promoted that ‘food’ (as per God’s classification) should not be considered clean unless certain rituals were performed regarding eating eg washing hands with so many egg-cup fulls of water and only cooking certain foods in certain pots etc. otherwise the food and the eater should be considered unclean. Jesus assured us that the man-made traditions do not make God’s classification of food clean or unclean, and that people are made unclean by what is in their heart that they speak.
Heart-felt disdain of God’s Laws comes out some peoples’ mouths.
Jesus did not sin regarding Sabbath either. Jesus followed God’s commands rather than man-made religious traditions of sabbath. God said people would LIVE by His Law ie not ‘die’ by His Law and Jesus clarified OT verses that God desires mercy rather than sacrifice, so it is lawful to do good and save life on sabbath as OT also promoted.
Jesus came to free us from sin, including errant man-made religious traditions (eg xmas and easter etc). We do know when Jesus was killed and it was Passover so celebrate that as God instructed. Your desire for fun partying can be satisfied at Sukkot when you can lawfully and joyfully get very drunk if you want.
It is wrong to falsely accuse Jesus of sinning and you blow claim that Jesus was a perfect sinless sacrifice. You can’t have it both ways.
cherylea,
Acts 15:29
that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”
Acts 21:25
“But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”
Revelation 2:14
‘But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.
Revelation 2:20
‘But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Paul is the only person in the entire bible that tells you that it is ok to eat food sacrificed to idols.
Paul was an antichrist, a child of the devil and just like his father he was a liar.
YHVH says that those who take the HOLY Nazarite Vow MUST grow long hair:
Numbers 6:5
” ‘During the entire period of his vow of separation no razor may be used on his head. He must be holy until the period of his separation to the LORD is over; he must let the hair of his head grow long.
Paul says that long hair is a disgrace:
1 Corinthians 11:14
Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
Was YAHU’SHUA (Jesus) Disgraceful??
i didnt say jesus was a sinner, i said, he committed what some wuld call sin, some being those who believe in the “laws” of tradition and man. jesus was a rebel in many ways against the pharasees, and the priests all the hypocrits who put bolders on peoples backs about law, yet themselves committed sin. they were snakes according to jesus, and vipers. you worry so much about cleaning the outside of the glass when the inside gets neglected. how do we clean the inside? by taking on jesus, and not by our own deeds. the outside doesnt have to be washed, except the feet according to jesus, why? caue the feet are the only things that touch the earth constantly. we walk in dirt, the earth constantly. yet i only recall him washing thier feet once, and once only. why? because it like baptism didnt need to be repeted over and over , once you are washed in him you are washed always. some people have all these fuffed up words and quotes, but do they really understand the meaning behind these words? if you dont believe paul was sent to the gentiles by god, then why do you read the bible? for the bible is holy, not one word shall be errased, nor added, and if you exclude paul, then you are errasing, and the warning at the ed of revelations tells us that there are major concequences for doing this. you are picking and choosing wo in the bible you wish to believe and who you wish not to! man disputes over paul, not god! just like their has always been man disputing over jesus, not god. Jehovah Eternally Saves Us Sinners! J E S U S! if your consciounse is week dear glend, then by all means, dont eat. and the same goes, with if you cant handle the truth about jesus setting us free from law, then DONT EAT. for he is the capstone, and to some the stubling block. stumbling because you cant get over the fact that grace and faith are the key words, not sin, nor deeds.there is also a difference between being set free, and lawlessness. one acknowledges the law and its place, but releases us from the concequences there of. the other just disreguards it. i am the first. i use to live under the law, was too affraid to work on sundays, even tred to keep all the fastings and feast dasys, i was terrified of the onsequences of breaking those laws, yet io read on and found grace in jesus. and didnt look back, for what happened to lots wife when god told her not to look back? she turned into a pillar of salt. follow the path jesus made, not moses. he had a sheppeards crook, anda kind loving heart, he didnt stone the adultress, yet all the others were ready to for her sins. he didnt say sin is nomore, but that sin was forgiven. so whether we do or dont eat, we are forgiven. but if you do anything with a guilty consciounse then you are condemmed already.
for god is nolonger to be refered to as barlim (the wrathfull god ) but ishi, (our husband) a husband doesnot condem his wife, but loves her and forgives her. the old testament would have her stoned to death, but not jesus, for he is the new adam, with the new consequence. love peace, joy ,hope, truth, release!
he also said i didnot come to bring peace but divissio. for his words will be disutted over for many years as they have been,peace is what he was,but divission was what would come of what he represented. divission because people cant get it right. his whole life was about bringing life to those who were dead in thier sins.healing to those who were sick,forgivness to all who had sinned.his message is clear to me. forgive and be forgiven! mercy, and not sacrifice yes because he was the sacrifice. and we are to have mercy for each other, for he has mercy for us.
and the DEAD are judged according to THEIR DEEDS! yes the dead for jesus said, let the DEAD bury their own dead and follow me.we are now made ALIVE in christ,there is nomore judgment for us,we,or i,am in the lambs book of life, once you are in there, you are nolonger judged by DEED, but bypass into paradise. the second book is the book of deeds, and those who dont acknowledge or believe in jesus and /or live by law shall be judged according to deeds.theirfore, you are talking about the dead watchman, not the risen in christ. whats the point of forgivness if we are to be judged according to our deeds? the forgivness is there from beginning to end to those who sin. who is it that sins? all of us. so all need and have forgivness from christ our sins are paid for by his blood and sacrifice, otherwise what would be the point of him comming?if we are still to be judged according to the old way of the law? jesus changed it all, otherwise who would get into the lambs book of life?according to deeds? none! for jesus told us, none of you are good, no, not even one. he himself also said, why do you call me good? for only god is good. even though nobody thinks of jesus as notgood. yet he made this statement.. you cant put new wine into old wineskins, or else the skin will bust. you cant patch an old garment with new cloth or else the garment will tear. he is talking about the old ways and the new ways, we must drink the wine of the new covenant, thats why you take holy communion, the body of christ, and the wine is the blood, we admit, we accept, and we live unto him now, and not unto the old ways of sacrificing. for god nolonger wants sacrifice, but mercy. the new testament always begins with, greetings i bring you peace and grace to thoise in christ! not condemnation and wrath!
Cherylea,
you said “if you dont believe paul was sent to the gentiles by god, then why do you read the bible?”
God never told us to read the bible. ‘The bible’ is not even mentioned in the bible because it did not even exist until Rome decided what people could or couldn’t read. God told us to listen to words coming from the mouth of Jesus. Jesus told us to heed and obey Moses and also heed his 12 eye-witness apostles. Jesus told us to NOT heed anyone claiming to meet Jesus after ascension. Paul claimed that he met Jesus after Jesus ascended. You disobey Jesus if you heed Paul. Jesus said that those who heed Jesus are those who love him and that those who refuse to are those who do not love him. Jesus said that there are those who reject his teachings because their deeds are evil and they don’t want to admit that, so they prefer darkness to light.
Jesus did not condemn the adulteress, but told her to sin no more. Paul promotes persisting in sin and you embrace and promote the words of Paul rather than those of Jesus.
I’m not after a free and easy icket to pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die, but am only interested in pleasing the Father now. I don’t desire this from fear, but from love and appreciation. I’m not looking at ‘tomorrow’s’ since today is enough to deal with. I’m alive today so not concerned about death or what will happen after death. I trust God with life and what God chooses after that.
You mentioned before about parents with children and how parents don’t hate children for getting dirty, but the parent washes a small child. That is right. However, sinners are not small children, but are equivalent of some rebellious late teens who disdain parents and despise parental house rules that are in place for the welfare of everyone eg no illegal drugs or activity in the house and no violence and no sexual misbehaviour etc. When a teen gets to the age of being able to live away from a parent, if that teen breaks house rules and is unrepentant and persists in rebellious loveless disobedience, then that teen cannot remain in the parental home, but can return when recognise how errant and wayward the behaviour was and prepared to humbly return and apologise and comply with parent. Jesus told us this in the story of the prodigal son. Desiring to please a parent, rather than disdainfully disobey them, is what a young child lovingly does. Jesus told us to convert to being lovingly obedient children. Heed him.
It is a serpent-of-Eden teaching that promotes people can live forever while disdainfully and unlovingly ignoring God’s instructions that are only in place for loving welfare of all. If you don’t believe God or Jesus or Moses or the 12 eye-witness apostles, then you will not believe those who repeat them. You prefer to heed the lying serpent and that is sad. God’s grace gives time for repentance. I hope you take the opportunity while available.
how can we heed the words of christ unless we get them form the bible? that is the only book they are in, so of course god is saying read the bible. the mystery of christ is opened up in the last days to be revealed to those in christ, what is the mystery? that christ is in us. that through the spiritual comming together with him we are now one with him, for let noman seperate what god has joined, and christ talks to us as if we are his bride, and the parables about a husband and wife. we are now one flesh, one spirit when we accept him, and therefore are made white as he is. he has paid our debt to god by his blood and life he gave up for us. there is now no condemnation for those in christ, and those in christ are the ones who have faith. if you slip back to the old ways of trying to live by your own righteousness then you are condemming yourself and those you try to teach the same to. jesus christ is my saviour, and that means he saves me from myself. i would have it no other way, and so i am not going to try to be pure of my own merits for who is all that holy that they can manage that? you/ are you so pure and holy glenda, that you sin not? i doubt it, therefore you need the blood and flesh of christ to cover you just as i do, yet atleast i accept that im no saint, and glady cover myself with jesus. you want to prove you can live up to gods standard of being sin free, and i can tell you right now, you will never do it. nobody can but christ jesus. and therfore, take on him, and his righteousness and then all is done, once and forgood, not over and over re sacrificing him constantly and then at the end of the day forgetting what you have. if you want to live by law then by law you shall be judged. i live by grace, wonderful full covering until i die grace, and yes i live for tomorrow, cause today is full of evil and evil influences, its all over this world and in most people. i crave for tomorrow because its a better place to be then this place called earth, for it is no paradise here for the true sons of god, but hell. and if you like is here, then you fit in, and to to love the world, isnot to love god for the world and its system is run by satan, and he is very much alive and well.fornow! but come a day when he shall be cast down and chained for a 1000 years, and those in christ who had died and gone to be with him will come back and judge those of the earth, those who dont believe in him, and also those who dont live by the faith in him. for knowing him and rejecting him is worse then never knowing him at all, and you have rejected his sacrifice for you by holding on to your own righteousness, and therfore, will be cast out of heaven just like satan. you say im a liar, and pauls a liar, well we will see in the end who’s who!
i dont desire sacrifice, but mercy! listen to these words all of you in self righteousness. i dont desire sacrifice…but mercy. forgive forgive forgive, all and each other as our father in heaven does for us. he has forgiven you before you even commit the sin, for we are eveil and cannot behave to the full, so he needed to put this in place for asny of us to get to heaven, and as it is, most so called christians i know arnt really christians at all, cause they havent heard, nor understood the message, “for god so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotton son, so that whoever believef in him shall live” ” 1john5 our victory over the world. whoever believes that jesus is the messiah is a child of god: and whoever loves a father loves his child also. this is how we know that we love gods children: it is by loving god and his commandments,for our love for god means that we obey his commands,and his commands are not too hard for us,because every child of god is able to defeat the world. and we win victory over thwe world by means of our faith.who can defeat the world? only the person that believes that jesus is the son of god.1 john 6 jesus christ is the one who came with the water of his baptism and the blood of his death. he came not oinly with the water,but with both the water and the blood. and the spirit himself testafies that this is true,because the spirit is truth. there are 3 wittnesses the spirit, the water and the blood, and all three give the same testemony, we believe human testemony, but gods testemony is stronger, and he has given this testemony about his son. so those who believe in the son of god have this testemony in their heart:but those who donot believe god have made a liar of him. becauase they have not believed about what god has said about his son. the testemony is this, god has given us eternal life,and this life has its source in his son. whoever has the son has this life: whoever doesnot have the son of god doesnot have life” 1john 13 i am writting this to you so that you may know that you have eternal life- you that believe in the son of god. we have courage in gods presence because we are sure thast he hears us if we ask him for anything that is according to his will: he hears us whenever we ask him. and since we know this is true, we know also that he gives us what we ask from him.” 1john19 we know that we belong to god even though the whole world is under the rule of the evil one. we know that the son of god has come and has given us understanding,so that we know the true god.we live in union with the true god- in union with his son jesus christ. this is the tue god and this is eternal life. my children keep yourselves safe fr4om false gods! ” so there it all is, we are now in union with jesus, we are his children and co inheritors of heaven, and it comes from belief, and faith, not from sin or non sinfor it is proven we all sin, and therfore miss the mark, but in vhrist you are set free from the chains of sin and condemnation. amen and halleluyah! believe aceept, and be baptised. and the truth shall set you free. free from sin and the consequences thereof. thats it, thats all its done. FAITH, FAITH FAITH!
romans 9;30 so we say that the gentiles who were not trying to put themselves right with god were put right with god, were put right with him through faith: while gods people who were seeking a law that would put them right with god, did not find it. and why not? because they didnot depend on faith but on what they did. and so they stumbled over the stumbling stone that the scriptures speak of. look i place in zion a stone that will make people stumble, a rock that will make them fall, but whoever believes in him willnot be dissapointed. 10;8 gods message is near you, on your lips and in your heart, that is the message of faith that we preach. if you confess that jesus is lord and and believe that god raised hinm from death you will be saved. the scripture says, “whoever believes in him will not be dissapointed” this includes everyone, because there is no difference between jew and gentiles, god is the same lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, as the scripture says, everyone who calls out to the lord for help will be saved. god said to abraham” it is through isaac that you will have the decendants i promised you”not all of abrahams children will be saved, but only the children of the promise, the faithful children, not the children born in the usual way, the children boprn of gods promise are reguarded as the true descendance. and this is notall. for rebeccas two sons had the same father,our ancestor isaac. but in order that the choice of one so might be completely the result of gods own purpose, god said to her the older will serve the younger. he said this before they were born, before they had done anything either good or bad. so gods choice was based on his call, and not on anything they had done or not done. as the scripture says, i loved jacob, but hated esau. i will have mercy on anyone i wish to have mercy i will take pity on anyone i wish, so then everything depends not on what we humans want or do, but only on gods mercy. god through jesus has given us his mercy for those who believe in him and have the faith to pull through. not on the goodies and not the badies, for to god we are all equally bad. so it has to be based on faith and on faith anlone, for the spirit says, truth to those who are in christ, the true believers of the faith, and all given based on his deliverance from his blood and sacrifice, and not of our own doing or choosing. you will never be right with god by your deeds, for you were born unto sin, and your human nature is always about the sinful ways. the only way in is through the spirit, the holy righteousness of god, and god alone. and if you cant accept this, then so be it.
cherylea,
You said “i dont desire sacrifice, but mercy! listen to these words all of you in self righteousness. i dont desire sacrifice…but mercy.”
Yet the very basis of your doctrine is that God requires sacrifice.
You try to tell us that if Jesus didn’t die on the cross we would all be condemned, that without that sacrifice we are all doomed to hell.
YAHU’SHUA said “Keep My Commandments”, He said “Repent” and “Go and sin no more” He did not say “It is impossible for you to stop sinning, that’s why my Father is sacrificing me”.
Listen to your own words cherylea… “i dont desire sacrifice, but mercy:”
We are not self righteous. We are desiring to be pleasing in the sight of YHVH by keeping the teachings of YAHU’SHUA and that is always an offense to the Lawless who have no desire to repent and turn from their sin.
You say… “i am not going to try to be pure of my own merits”
1 Peter 1
14As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
15but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
16because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”
17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;
cherylea… By professing that no person can live up to God’s standards you are calling YHVH a liar.
Leviticus 22:31
Therefore shall ye keep my commandments, and do them: I am YHVH.
Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of YHVH which I command you.
Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Do you not know that he who is born of YHVH has power over sin?
Genesis 4:7
7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”
James 1:14-16
14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
James 5:19-20
19My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
cherylea… You have strayed from the truth
You are a disciple of a liar.
Paul is antichrist and those who place his teachings above the teachings of YAHU’SHUA are antichrist.
Your teachings are antichrist for they are contrary to the words of YAHU’SHUA HA MASHIACH
Matthew 7:23
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Matthew 13:41
” The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matthew 23:28
“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Matthew 7:23
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
END OF STORY!
Anything else is from the evil one.
Do Not use this website to promote your pagan Pauline antichirist philosophy and deny the words of YAHU’SHUA HA MASHIACH. If you continue to deny the words of YAHU’SHUA you will not be welcome here.
This website is for those who desire to find and follow the way spoken of by YAHU’SHUA HA MASHIACH. If you wish to follow Pauls teachings then find another website where they promote pagan Christianity. I am sure your Pauline philosophies will be most welcome there.
Matthew 7:23
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.
Cherylea, you speak with a divided/forked tongue since 2 opposite things come from your mouth. You said “you want to prove you can live up to gods standard of being sin free, and i can tell you right now, you will never do it. nobody can” and then you said the opposite “this is how we know that we love gods children: it is by loving god and his commandments,for our love for god means that we obey his commands,and his commands are not too hard for us,because every child of god is able to defeat the world.”
We are assured that God’s Law is do-able
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
We are given examples of people who have done it
LK 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Cherylea, you have claimed that singing songs to God is what is desirable, but scripture assures us that obedience is what is required rather than pretty songs and disobedience
EZEK 33:32 And, lo, thou [art] unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
Hypocrisy is when what is said does not match actions. Claiming love does not match fruit of loveless disobedience and fruit is how a tree can be recognised.
EZEK 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee [as] my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, [but] their heart goeth after their covetousness.
The devils believe and admit that Jesus is Messiah and yet they are doomed
Brother Watchman you speak truth
Attempting to thrust us out of the way of YHWH is a sin/offense against us
Here is what was written before Yeshua:
Deu 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deu 13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
Deu 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
Deu 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Deu 13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 13:11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
But here is gracious command of Yeshua that allows for possibility of brethren making offensive errors at some time that we can be rebuked about and repent of and be forgiven for:
Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
and here is gracious alternative command to stoning:
Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Scripture is the primary witness and you have seconded that witness. I agree with scripture and with you and pray may God continue to lead your words and actions. The small church here respects and supports however God leads you.
May YHWH bless and keep you
your sister
ok, so ive stired up the pot of non paul believers, and quite frankly i thought this was a christian free line, and who is watchman to tell me im not welcome? are you the owner? then why did you leave your door open and invite all in for thier comments? thing that seems to be is you only want the comments that suit your belief. anyone who belives paul isnot welcome,. well i think you will find that coveres most christians? paul is in the bible not you, who are you to judge another mans slave? paul to me was a good preacher and got it right what jesus was sayiong, and thats all i have said, the rest has been quoted from john, do you also cast him out as a liar? i think i know who are the liars, and it aint me. i was only ever really trying to help you live under grace and no longer law, but suit youselves, and therfore be judged accordingly, and yes, if jesus didnt come, you would be toast! everybody who is christian knows this except you you self righteous hypocrit, but i wont waste anymore of my breath trying to reach you nor any others that dont want to be reached, cause its a dam waste of time and effort. so throw me out of the synagfog, just like they did jesus, for i glory in being treated as he was, and and boast in my troubles, just as paul said. i dont worship paul, he was just another servant of god, just like all the apposltles, but for you and gleda to deny him of the work he did for god, and just cast him aside out of the bible, then you have someone to answer to latter, and dont say you wernt warned. sighning out of this bogus christian church site, and gladly so.
by the way glenda, i didnt say i was sin free, i said my sins were forgiven.big difference, i am no longer under the curse of sin or cop the punnishmenmt thereof, but surely i do sin, just as all of us do. that is why i said you cant get in of your own righteousness, but by the cleansing from jesus blood, who of us in christ does not jknow this???? this is basic scripture, you twist my words around, to make it look as if i am pleading innocent, i am not, just forgiven.obedience to god is of the 2 great commandments love god and love your neighbour, love does no harm to god nor neighbour, so all the commandments are summed up in theses two. love is what god is, unconditional love to those :in christ: that means those who are under the banner the safe haven of christ, for even satan accknowledges christ as you guys, do, but to be in him you need to follow him,, by being loving. forgiving, mercyfull, peace keeping, truthful, joyful, hopeful, and faithful, you cannot be like god if you are not these things, and god isnot full of love or forgivness if he doesnt forgive you. what god would expect us to be that way if he wasnt? praise and worship is wonderful in gods ears, and he would rather hear me sing to him, then you whinge. we are all of very different beliefs about who and what is right, in the bible, to me the whole thing is holy, and spiritual, to you all parts of ot is satanic. i cant see god allowing that. for holy means divine, and satan isnot divine at all. he is in the world, but not in heaven. i just want to give you one more example of the difference between how we get into heaven and how we dont. remember the two sinners either side of christ hanging on their crosses? both of them were sinners, thats why they were there in the first place. one taunted christ to get himself down, while the other told him off for doing so and believed in christ. one was a disbeliever, the other had faith, the one who had the faith was told by christ that he would be in paradise with jesus that day, the other wasnt told anything bt was left in his disbelief. both had done nothing to be saints, but both were sinners, yet the one who had faith and belief was the one who was promised paradise. and the whole truth of jesus and his message can be pretty muched summed up in this last scene. for the promise came through the criminals belief and tongue which wittnessed his belief, and still he got to go to heaven. so what do you say about that??? it didnt happen? it was a lie? or are you truly going to think about it and see the facts and truth. that god will take us to heaven by belief and confession alone, not sacrifice but mercy was written for us, not for christ. we dont have to give sacrifice, not christ, i wasnt talking about him but us, you all twist it to whatever you want to see and hear. the sinner went to heaven, even without baptism, but belief only. the other without any didnt, thats all there is to is, and yet you reject it, shame on you pharrasees.
cherylea,
“Don’t you Fear God?
We deserve to die for our sins”…
The FEAR of GOD fell the crucified criminal.
“Don’t you Fear God?”
The criminal saw his true state.
Luke 23:41″We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve”.
He admitted that the Law was Good. He agreed with the Law, and that his punishment for breaking the Law was Just.
But YAHU’SHUA… YAHU’SHUA did not deserve Punishment…
The criminal felt compassion for YAHU’SHUA… The criminal had a heart full of mercy toward our King…
“But this man has done nothing wrong.”
The criminal Repented.
That is the Gospel:
“repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand”.
That is exactly what YHVH asks of us.
It takes so much time to respond to your statements but you are clearly not open to learning the truth.
Tell me cherylea, which of the commandments is it that you have such a problem with?
DO NOT COMMIT MURDER…?
Do NOT COMMIT ADULTERY…?
DO NOT STEAL…?
DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS…?
cherylea… Which Ones SHOULDN’T We Keep…???
ALL OF THEM…???
DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ANARCHY GLORIFIES GOD…???
Which Law of YHVH is it that you don’t like cherylea…?
Matthew 19:17-18
17And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18Then he said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
In the above verse, YAHU’SHUA tells us that to enter into Eternal Life we must KEEP The Commandments.
Yet you disagree with YAHU’SHUA and prefer rather the teaching of Paul, That we are saved by “faith alone” even though they are contradictory to the teachings of YAHU’SHUA HA MASHIACH and all of the prophets before Him.
Matthew 18:8″If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
9″If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it from you It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
Can you not hear the cry of YAHU’SHUA HA MASHIACH cherylea?
DO NOT SIN cherylea… Cut those sinning members off and cast them away from you…
Exodus 15:26
And He said, ” If you will give earnest heed to the voice of the LORD your God, and do what is right in His sight, and give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have put on the Egyptians; for I, the LORD, am your healer.”
Exodus 16:28
Then the LORD said to Moses, ” How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions?
Exodus 20:6
but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Leviticus 22:31
” So you shall keep My commandments, and do them; I am the LORD.
Leviticus 26:3
‘ If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments so as to carry them out,
Deuteronomy 4:2
” You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:40
” So you shall keep His statutes and His commandments which I am giving you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may live long on the land which the LORD your God is giving you for all time.”
Deuteronomy 5:10
but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deuteronomy 5:29
‘ Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!
Deuteronomy 6:2
so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.
Deuteronomy 6:17
” You should diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and His testimonies and His statutes which He has commanded you.
Deuteronomy 7:9
“Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;
Deuteronomy 8:2
” You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.
Deuteronomy 8:6
“Therefore, you shall keep the commandments of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him.
Deuteronomy 8:11
“Beware that you do not forget the LORD your God by not keeping His commandments and His ordinances and His statutes which I am commanding you today;
Deuteronomy 10:13
and to keep the LORD’S commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today for your good?
Deuteronomy 11:1
“You shall therefore love the LORD your God, and always keep His charge, His statutes, His ordinances, and His commandments.
Deuteronomy 13:4
” You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
Deuteronomy 13:18
if you will listen to the voice of the LORD your God, keeping all His commandments which I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 26:17
” You have today declared the LORD to be your God, and that you would walk in His ways and keep His statutes, His commandments and His ordinances, and listen to His voice.
Deuteronomy 26:18
“The LORD has today declared you to be His people, a treasured possession, as He promised you, and that you should keep all His commandments;
Deuteronomy 27:1
Then Moses and the elders of Israel charged the people, saying, “Keep all the commandments which I command you today.
Deuteronomy 28:9
” The LORD will establish you as a holy people to Himself, as He swore to you, if you keep the commandments of the LORD your God and walk in His ways.
Deuteronomy 28:45
“So all these curses shall come on you and pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the LORD your God by keeping His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you.
Deuteronomy 30:10
if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
Deuteronomy 30:16
in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.
Joshua 22:5
“Only be very careful to observe the commandment and the law which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, to love the LORD your God and walk in all His ways and keep His commandments and hold fast to Him and serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul.”
1 Kings 2:3
“Keep the charge of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to what is written in the Law of Moses, that you may succeed in all that you do and wherever you turn,
1 Kings 3:14
” If you walk in My ways, keeping My statutes and commandments, as your father David walked, then I will prolong your days.”
1 Kings 6:12
“Concerning this house which you are building, if you will walk in My statutes and execute My ordinances and keep all My commandments by walking in them, then I will carry out My word with you which I spoke to David your father.
1 Kings 8:58
that He may incline our hearts to Himself, to walk in all His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His ordinances, which He commanded our fathers.
1 Kings 8:61
” Let your heart therefore be wholly devoted to the LORD our God, to walk in His statutes and to keep His commandments, as at this day.”
1 Kings 9:6
” But if you or your sons indeed turn away from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods and worship them,
2 Kings 17:13
Yet the LORD warned Israel and Judah through all His prophets and every seer, saying, ” Turn from your evil ways and keep My commandments, My statutes according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you through My servants the prophets.”
2 Kings 17:19
Also Judah did not keep the commandments of the LORD their God, but walked in the customs which Israel had introduced.
2 Kings 23:3
The king stood by the pillar and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep His commandments and His testimonies and His statutes with all his heart and all his soul, to carry out the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people entered into the covenant.
1 Chronicles 29:19
and give to my son Solomon a perfect heart to keep Your commandments, Your testimonies and Your statutes, and to do them all, and to build the temple, for which I have made provision.”
2 Chronicles 34:31
Then the king stood in his place and made a covenant before the LORD to walk after the LORD, and to keep His commandments and His testimonies and His statutes with all his heart and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant written in this book.
Nehemiah 1:5
I said, “I beseech You, O LORD God of heaven, the great and awesome God, who preserves the covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments,
Nehemiah 1:9
but if you return to Me and keep My commandments and do them, though those of you who have been scattered were in the most remote part of the heavens, I will gather them from there and will bring them to the place where I have chosen to cause My name to dwell.’
Nehemiah 10:29
are joining with their kinsmen, their nobles, and are taking on themselves a curse and an oath to walk in God’s law, which was given through Moses, God’s servant, and to keep and to observe all the commandments of GOD our Lord, and His ordinances and His statutes;
Psalm 78:7
That they should put their confidence in GodAnd not forget the works of God,But keep His commandments,
Psalm 89:31
If they violate My statutesAnd do not keep My commandments,
Psalm 119:60
I hastened and did not delayTo keep Your commandments.
Proverbs 3:1
My son, do not forget my teaching,But let your heart keep my commandments;
Proverbs 4:4
Then he taught me and said to me,”Let your heart hold fast my words; Keep my commandments and live;
Proverbs 7:1
My son, keep my wordsAnd treasure my commandments within you.
Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commandments and live,And my teaching as the apple of your eye.
Ecclesiastes 12:13
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.
Daniel 9:4
I prayed to the LORD my God and confessed and said, “Alas, O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments,
Matthew 5:19
“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:17
And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
John 14:15
” If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:21
” He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
John 15:10
” If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John 2:3
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 John 2:4
The one who says, ” I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1 John 3:22
and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1 John 3:24
The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
Revelation 12:17
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME MESSAGE IN BOTH THE OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENTS cherylea…
(once you take Paul out of the equation)
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Revelation 22:10-12
11″Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”
12″Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Matthew 7:21″Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22″Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23″And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Who do you think He is talking about here cherylea.
Think about it cherylea…
Who are those who practice Lawlessness…?
Those who practice Lawlessness are… …
… Those who do not keep the Law.
You call us Pharisees and hypocrites because we choose serve YHVH and honour His servant YAHU’SHUA by keeping His commandments… ???
You can not keep the 2 greatest commandments unless you keep the 10. Break one of the 10 and you have, by default, broken one of the 2.
Revelation 14:7
He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
cherylea… Do not be deceived… through a healthy and respectful Fear of YHVH Those who Are HIS are able…, No… COMPELLED to turn away from Sin.
watchman, i live unto the body or its merits or its punnishments anymore, i have taken on christ jesus and his righteousness not my own, so therfore thats were i get my righteousness from, not my eyes or ears, yet i hear what you believe and say because it took me along time to come from were you are to were i am. i have sinned much in my life, but i also have repented of those sins constantly, for my conscience tells me too whether i believe i am free or not i still feel guilt if i hurt god or anyone else. i havenot plucked out my eyes although i have sinned with them, but if i followed the law of taking off the body what has sinned i doubt whether any of us would have any body parts left. i pity those who do take it literally and have gone forth and cut out their eye or ear or fingers, because its not necesary. jesus blood was so preciuos and sacred that every drop was bleed for our sins, and he paid the price, so whether we are rebellious or not, our sins are paid for in full. have you obeyed the commandments and cut off your body parts? i doubt it, and yet im sure as a human you have sinned, maybe not much, but god says even if we look at a women in lust we are committing sin, and so, you would have to walk around with your eyes shyut from birth, or be so very controled that you have no lusts, and only you and god know that? i admit to sin, i admit to fault, and to my dirtyness and my human nature that i sometimes cant control, even though i want to, its just part of the human core that we are sinners from birth and god understands this and has made compensation for it through jesus, he is the sacrificed passover lamb, were we no longer have to sacrifice bulls or goats, or any such thig, with blood as the rules were that sacrifice must be made with blood, so the blood is now jesus’s and not animals nor our own. i have come to this understanding cause i truly seek the truth and have studied the bible much and gone over and over it to seek that truth, and all my comments come from a true heart who trully believes in what i have found and said. i dont lie, and i dont steal, but i have envyed others in my life, and i did have an abortion when i was young so that is murder, and i would not do it again, but still i make my choices and decissions out of the best possible beliefs i have at the time, and i appologise for my temper, and harsh words to you and glenda, for as we all know those with passion who defend or love something, fight for it, and i didnt like what you were portraying me as and it offended me, and so i reacted and spat out venom, and it wasnt done from the heart of a person who fights for satan nor any wrongdoing, but trying to defend what i truly believe is right. so forgive me not for my beliefs, but for my reaction and anger toward you whether we agree or not, fighting and venum isnot the way to go for any of gods children, for christ who reighns in us, is the spirit of peace, and i let my human side, the devil get a hold on me, the negative side to all of us, and you aswell also spat out some venom, be them calm or not, you are still saying because i heed to pauls words, a liar as you call him, then i also am full of lies, but i dont believe so, and there really is no point in argueing for either of us because neither of us is going to change our ways or thinking or feeling, and so we should just agree to dissagree and walk away in peace and hope and understanding that not everyone will agree with what we each feel. so watchman and glenda, i bless you both with the love of christ, and wish you both the best in your journey and walk with god, and maybe one day i will meet you in heaven? although i do get excited discussing god with others, if it comes to bucking heads, then its best not done at all, so good luck and god bless. cherylea
Cherylea, you said “god isnot full of love or forgivness if he doesnt forgive you. what god would expect us to be that way if he wasnt?”
EXACTLY! God does not expect us to be what He isn’t!
God is loving and expects us to be loving.
God is forgiving and expects us to be forgiving.
GOD IS SINLESS AND EXPECTS US TO BE SINLESS!
Jesus told us to be perfect as God is perfect.
Jesus told us to obey his commandments.
You also said “praise and worship is wonderful in gods ears, and he would rather hear me sing to him, then you whinge.”
You are putting yourself in God’s place by claiming this! That is arrogant.
You said “we are all of very different beliefs about who and what is right, in the bible, to me the whole thing is holy, and spiritual, to you all parts of ot is satanic.”
You make false accusations.
Jesus and many righteous people are in the bible and I claim they are holy.
You claim everything in the bible is holy and yet the serpent is in the bible.
You are calling Satan ‘holy’.
You said “holy means divine”
You are wrong.
Holy means ’set apart’ eg Sabbath is set apart from common week days
God’s people are set apart from worldly people
etc
divine as an adjective means ‘Godlike’
You said “jesus, he is the sacrificed passover lamb”
The Passover lamb only enabled people to freely leave Egypt speedily if they desired, but did not save them from dying in slavery if they were slow and the passover lamb did not stop people from dying in freedom in the desert if they were disobedient to God’s commands and did not guarantee people entry to the promised Kingdom.
Cherylea, I have no interest in attempting further discussion with you unless you repent of your promotion of errant teachings and your groundless false accusations.
Brother Watchman,
sharing here because I’m unsure where else is appropriate to share. This morning it struck me how the word ’salvation’ is bandied around in religion and yet the religious explanation misses the point of what salvation really is. There were instructions of what the name of Jesus must be, because the name had to reflect that Jesus would save us FROM SIN.
Much of religion claims we are NOT saved from actually sinning, but instead are only saved from the consequences of remaining in sin and this is wrong, same as we must be saved from physical diseases before they become fatal eg if an infection is stopped and removed from the system, then it doesn’t have the opportunity to take over us and kill us.
JAS 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
We are only saved from death IF we are first saved from the source of death ie sin. The cure to infection of sin is obedience
JN 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, IF a man KEEP MY SAYINGS, he shall never see death.
We can’t claim that we are saved from either infection or sin if it remains in us.
Also, some infections and sins are beyond healing
1JN 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1JN 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Seems like religion attracts people who fear death and comforts them by falsely promising them life even if they remain in sin/infection
EZEK 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Religion tends to promote a comfy deal with death rather than promote the cure of sin, which cure is repentance to obedience
IS 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
You would have already known all this, but I’m often slow on the uptake and some things are new discoveries for me so sharing this one that is probably old knowledge for others. Please forgive if inappropriate
peace to you brother
your sister the learner/disciple
Sister Glenda,
The Messiah’s name YAHU’SHUA means – ‘YAH IS SALVATION’
YAHU’SHUA always directed Glory and Honour to the Father.
Even His name directs us to the All Merciful Father of all for our Salvation.
YAHU’SHUA came “7to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness”. (Isaiah 42)
When we choose to follow Him… He sets us free.
We are now FREE to no longer serve sin.
You are right Sister Glenda, sin is like cancer.
When you find out that you have got it you have to cut it out or kill it.
If you don’t kill it… It will kill you.
If you don’t deal with it all, it will come back to haunt you.
You must deal with it ruthlessly.
If you love it it will kill you.
Some people battle with it for years before they eventually either defeat it or succumb to it.
YAHU’SHUA promised us that if we repent we would receive Remission of Sins.
Luke 3:
3And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins,
That is exactly what happened to me when I first repented of my sins.
I felt clean.
I had dominion over sin and temptation.
My sin was in remission.
YHVH gives us remission of sins.
But just like cancer… If it comes back again it can kill you.
It’s purpose is to kill you. That is it’s nature.
Some medical studies report that cancer can thrive on the negativity of sin.
And like cancer… when sin is left untreated, it will kill you.
Those who come out of remission of sins can die just as those who come out of remission of cancer.
1 John 1:
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
He cleanses us from all unrighteous… But if we don’t deal with those sins that He has forgiven us for… it is very easy to dirty ourselves up again.
John 5:
14Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.”
Matthew 12:
43″Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it.
44″Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order.
45″Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”
Everybody is a slave.
Whether we like to admit it or not, everybody is a slave to something.
Some people are a slave to money. They strive all of their life trying to acquire more and more of it, but they are never satisfied, no matter how much they get.
Some are slaves to food, some are slaves to their sensual desires, some are slaves to adrenaline, some to nicotine, some to alcohol, some to gambling, some to ill health, some to fear, some to pride.
The things that we are slaves to are our masters.
Those who are in bondage to sin and can not escape its grasp are slaves to sin. Sin is their master.
John 8:
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
When we make the decision to serve YHVH and His Servant YAHU’SHUA HA MASHIACH He sets us FREE.
John 15:
15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
PAULINE CHRISTIANS: We are no longer slaves of sin.
36″So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
Did You Hear That Everybody…???
“if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed”.
When we REPENT of (disdain and turn away from) our sin and are baptized for the remission of sins Our Heavenly Father gives us a helper, a comforter, He gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit.
John 8:
32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
The Holy Spirit will never lead you into sin…
NEVER…
He is Holy.
Most christians refuse to take dominion over their sin.
It is very easy for Pauline christians to pass the buck… “it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me”.
Get behind me satan.
1 John 3:
8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
Just like the Hebrews who escaped from the bondage of slavery in Egypt and then later desired to go back, so too do most christians desire to go back into slavery to sin.
Why be like a dog that returns to its own vomit??
The Holy Spirit will not lead you that way. “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free”
SIN IS LAWLESSNESS
1 John 3:
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
Matthew 13:
41″The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
DO YOU HEAR THAT…???
THOSE WHO COMMIT LAWLESSNESS WILL BE GATHERED OUT OF HIS KINGDOM AND CAST INTO THE FIRE!!!
42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43″Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father He who has ears, let him hear.
Why am I so adamant about this…???
What have I got to gain from it…???
NOTHING in this life.
I am not hoping to gain money from you… You will NEVER hear me ask you for money.
FAME…?? I don’t even use my name here… I am not hoping for recognition.
So WHY am I telling you these things that you don’t want to hear…?
Because YHVH told me to. And I want to be pleasing in His sight.
Your pastor will not tell you these things that you don’t want to hear.
You might leave his church and he’ll have to take a pay cut.
I don’t rely on you for anything,
I am FREE to tell you the truth.
YHVH LOVES YOU.
BUT HE CAN NOT LET SINNERS TURN HEAVEN INTO HELL!
Think about it.
If just one slave to sin entered into heaven… It would no longer be Heaven would it.
Our All Merciful Heavenly Father and originator of all things, YHVH has given us everything we need through YAHU’SHUA HA MASHIACH to take dominion over sin.
YAHU’SHUA came to reveal to us the Kingdom of Heaven. We have some of the truths that He revealed to us written down so that we can read them and dwell and meditate upon his revealed truths. We have the Holy Spirit who brings His teachings and His truths to our rememberance.
YAHU’SHUA fulfilled the Law.
Matthew 5:
17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Follow YAHU’SHUA…
As He Commanded…
Matthew 10:
38″And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
Follow after YAHU’SHUA… Do not seek to abolish the Law… Seek to fulfill it…
You Can Not Serve 2 Masters.
You can not abide by the lies of Paul:
Ephesians 2:
15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
And the truth of YAHU’SHUA:
Matthew 5:
17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Revelation 18:
4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.
Revelation 17:
5and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, ” BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”
Most people acknowledge the Catholic church as THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS.
If she is the mother of harlots… Then in Reality, that makes all other Pauline denominations her harlot children by default.
Revelation 18:
4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.
Thank you for explaining that so clearly and increasing understanding!
I had failed to grasp some associated concepts and now supplied
thank you indeed brother Watchman for supplying answers with scripture.
I am fed well here!
peace to you and your house
your sister Glenda
two things i want to address glenda. you said, god wants us to be sinless as he is, and jesus wants us to be perfect as he is perfect. how is this possible? by our humaness we are made from flesh and blood and have sin in us and with us from beginning to end. jesus was different, he had no flesh father, no flesh seed to which made him holy and special and able to be perfect. who in the bible was sin free? except jesus? there were very good and righteous people, not many but some, and god was pleased with them, but they were far from perfect or sinless. so who gets to go to heaven if we are to be sinfree? and perfect? can you tell me of any person you know that is able to reach these goals? even if there were, it would be so rare that at the end, maybe a handful of souls would make it to heaven, according to perfection and sinlessness. i cannot be perfect, i admit, i need grace, and am very greatful that i ride in on jesus coat tail instead of my own, because otherwize i would have no hope, and who of us could? are you perfect yet? and if not, then when would you ever be re ady to die, so that you are perfect at the time? i understand about repentance, im still confessing all to god constantly, but i already know i have forgivness before i even ask. i wont bother you and your site, since you also have told me not to come back, i appologised for my rudness, but you are still rude, and unforgiving. you arenot perfect yet, and if god should take you today, then you wouldnt make it into heaven according to your own words. so i hope you get it right glenda, and become sinfree, yet ive never met a human who could manage to be so pure in mind body and soul as you believe we need to attain to. good luck sweetheart, cause your gonna need it.
cherylea,
Of course YHVH wants us to be sinless.
Why do you think He tells us to repent (turn away) from sin?
You sound more like an enemy of YHVH cherylea.
“YHVH didn’t say don’t sin”…
“YAHU’SHUA didn’t say be perfect”…
YAHU’SHUA declared “Repent (turn away from sin), for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand…
Are you going to agree with Him …?
That we need to turn away from sin …?
Or are you going to agree with His murderers who took offense when they were told to repent …?
He was murdered because He came and told all men everywhere to REPENT.
You treat His blood as worthless and mock his death by professing to know Him and Love Him yet teach others that He did not tell us that to turn away from sin is the way into the kingdom of Heaven?
Who do you agree with cherylea…?
YAHU’SHUA – “Repent (turn away from sin), for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand … ?
Or The adversary – “You will not surely die if you sin” …?
YAHU’SHUA SAID
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).
Why do you continually deny what the Messiah (Christ) said …?
You say you love Him yet you will not accept His words…
1 John 5:
18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
Genesis 4:
7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.”
Do you agree with YAHU’SHUA cherylea …?
“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect”…
“Repent (turn away from sin), for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand”…
Or Do you deny Him …?
There is one statement that comes close to truth “maybe a handful of souls would make it to heaven, according to perfection and sinlessness”
MT 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
MT 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
Please heed Jesus and take the hard narrow path that FEW find … only a handful.
Regarding other issues, Jesus was A MAN, according to himself and his eye-witnesses JN 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, A MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
ACTS 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Jesus called himself ’son of man’ and verified he was flesh, so was obviously born flesh, since what is born flesh is flesh according to Jesus “LK 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
Seed of a woman can undergo parthenogenesis, which results in a fully human flesh embryo (scientific reality).
Despite Jesus being the flesh seed of a flesh human, here is what Cherylea claims … “jesus was different, he had no flesh father, no flesh seed”
Here is the teaching of antichrist …. 1JN 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2JN 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
In 1 Cor. 10:18-22 he says they shouldn’t eat food sacrificed to idols. I think he felt that he had the freedom to do it because Yeshua said that it wasn’t what went into the body that defiled it but what came from it. Paul obviously felt that it wasn’t sinful, yet it also wasn’t “profitable”. So in the end I believe his conclusion and final word was to abstain. I don’t believe in any way that Paul is “anti-christ”. The fellow believers of his time were upset with him at t times, but they were also wrong as well due to the insight they had at the moment. They said the Jews shouldn’t associate with gentiles, that they had to be circumsized before they were able to be saved, to follow the entire law God laid out to Moses etc…We shouldn’t write them off as anti- even though what they were saying went against what He died for which was to set us free from the penalty of sin. We still follow parts of the law but we aren’t “saved” by following it. We simply follow it because we are saved. I think we should be very, very careful how we judge people.
I have come across thisanti-Pauline type of theology before and quite frankly I find it completely repugnant. I find it even more repugnant when a *supposedly* on line Church starts pushing its own agenda in this manner. This theology results from of imbibing of skewed dispensationalist views – Marcion was fond of *selected* passages of Paul, as he was able to twist the writings of Paul into *appearing* to advocate `cheap grace’! It is apparent that this `watchman’ has bought this! I say this to you, sir – dispensationalism resulted from the counter-Reformation. Two Jesuit priests, Alcazzar and Ribera were commissioned by Rome to develop preterism and futurism – which is also known as dispensationalism (the theology of which had already been sown by Calvin’s belief that only the `elect’ will be saved) so that the prophetic eyes of the Protestants might be diverted from Rome. In this she was emminently succesful, and so-called `Protestants’ who no longer protest the errors of Rome are heading back to her in droves, under the guise of ecumenicalism. Of course, corrupted `modern’ translations derived from Codex A and B and the neo-platonism and allegorization of Westcott & Hort have also helped in having these people imbibe of Roman Catholic (rather – neoplatonic) doctrine. So if this website has set itself against the errors of Rome, then can someone please tell me why does this web site use corrupt translations of the Bible (not to mention apocryphal manuscripts which clearly teach Plato) which erode its theology????
Although Paul sees idols as `nothing’ in this word, he tells us in verse 13, that he will not `eat meat’ (presumably which has been sacrificed to idols – this is how the majority of commentators view this verse) in case he causes his brother to offend. In chapter 9 he continues his argument by saying:
`Do all of you not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
9:14 Even so has the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
9:23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.’
The reason why some people have a problem with Pauline theology, is that they simply don’t understand what Paul taught – which was *not* keeping the law by `cheap grace’! The only way by which we can `keep’ the Law is through a faith (agape) that works through love (Galatians 5:6). This leads to true commandment keeping – *including* keeping of the true 7th day Sabbath, which was both blessed and sanctified by the Lord. (Read the original commandment!)
When in 325 the Roman Emporer Constantine presided over the Council of Nicea, he commanded that not only the pagan Trinity (which dates back to ancient Babylon) be enjoined as an article of faith, but also commanded that Mithraism be infused into `Christianity’ through the observence of the Day of the Sun (Sunday) – and the `Jewish Sabbath’ be abrogated. The Book of Revelation (which was written by the `Beloved Disciple’ John) in fact supports Pauls theology – at the end of time when the Lord’s people are again being persecuted by Rome, John tells us that the Lord *will* have a people who are faithful to Him:
`Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Rev. 14:6)
Faith *and* works – the two wheels which drive the wagon. Without either one, the wheels fall off and we end up in the ditch!
Kymbo,
All your talk of theology, dispensationalism, Marcionism, reformation, counter-reformation, preterism, futurism, Calvinism, Protestantism, ecumenicalism, neo-platonism, allegorization, catholicism, is meaningless with regard to the subject at hand. All it does is reveal your religious indoctrinism.
The fact is Kymbo…
Our Heavenly Father Commanded us numerous times not to make idols.
He told us not to have anything to do with them.
He told us to destroy them.
Exodus 20:
2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Deuteronomy 5:
6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
7 you shall have no other gods before me.
8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exodus 34:
12 Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you.
13 You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles
14 (for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God).
15 You shall not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone among them will invite you, and you will eat of the sacrifice.
The original disciples also knew that we are to stay away from idols as they told Paul:
Acts 15:20
Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Acts 15:29
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
Acts 21:25
“But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”
But Paul seems to think that he has knowledge while the original disciples have a weak conscience:
1 Corinthians 8
9But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
10For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
11For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
Paul openly declares that those who have knowledge are at liberty to eat meat sacrificed to idols in an idols temple but to those who are weak, seeing one eat meat sacrificed to idols in an idols temple is a stumbling block to them because they are weak. Only those with knowledge can do so with a clear conscience.
WHAT THE HELL IS A FOLLOWER OF THE WAY OF YAHUSHUA DOING IN AN IDOLS TEMPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Pauls statement contradicts the commandments of YHVH…
Pauls statement contradicts the Words of the TRUE Apostles…
Pauls wrong teaching is revealed in the very Words of YAHUSHUA to the seven churches in Asia.
15.Revelation 2:14
‘But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.
16.Revelation 2:20
‘But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Paul did not teach that men should keep the Law and Commandments of YHVH.
Paul taught against the Law and Commandments of YHVH!
The original disciples and their disciples knew it (Acts 21:20-28)
That is why ALL THE CHRISTIANS IN ASIA TURNED AWAY FROM HIM!
2 Timothy 1:15
You are aware of the fact that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.
Do no be deceived by the doctrines of men and the doctrines of the mother of Harlots Kymbo.
Now I *thought* that you might bite on that post! I commend you sir, on having the moral gumption to let it past moderation! Most people would have ignored it and thrown it in the `too hard’ bin, as we are all only human and find criticism hard to bear! That’s been my experience, anyway.
I am fully aware about the first commandment forbidding idolatry. Funny that Rome deleted it from the Decalogue. Not that she has the power to do so – she only *thinks* she has the power to change `times and laws’. At a deeper level, anything elevated before God (like `self’ for instance) is idolatry. Not just food sacrificed to idols, or images of idols. Love of `self’ is the greatest idolatry of all. Hence the fall of Lucifer. But I stand by what I said – most commentators agree that in verse 13 Paul is determined that `he will not `eat meat’ (presumably which has been sacrificed to idols – this is how the majority of commentators view this verse) in case he causes his brother to offend.’ The interpretation you have taken, is clearly a wresting of the Scriptures. (I am sorry if I am offensive in saying this!)
Indoctrinism?? More like everything I believe I have studied out for myself, *including* history! Doctrines which I *do not* ascribe to which are commonly accepted by Christendom include the Trinitarian doctrine, vicarious substitution, and the natural immortality of the `soul’. All are doctrines which have their basis with Plato – and of course Greek philosophy *should have* nothing to do with Christianity.This of course makes me a rank heretic; but I don’t mind at all as I don’t bother going to Church anyway! However – surprise, surprise – I *do* believe in the pre-incarnate Christ Whose pre-existence is from eternity. (If we can fathom such a concept – and I thought I might just sneak that one in, as by now most people are probably thinking that I deny the divinity of Christ and follow after legalistic conceptions of the atonement!) When I *did* attend Church at one time, I copped all types of indoctrinism from all types of people. On the one hand, the conservative brethren regarded me as a liberal. On the other hand, the liberals regarded me as legalistic! Simply because I studied out Scripture for myself and came to my own conclusions. The truth of the matter is, I didn’t belong to either camp.
As for being deceived by the doctrines of men and the Mother of Harlots, if that were true, I would still be attending a Trinitarian Church and wallowing in doctrines which are derived from Rome (and initially Plato), wouldn’t I?
Shabbat Shalom.
Kymbo
This place is not a BLESSING to my life, and I consider myself a radical christian, but Cherylea and the watchman are just FOOLS. Instead of enriching your lives with God’s word, you’re challenging it. Your are a stumble stone for the weak and naive. p.s and I tough I had a problem : )